{"id":2236,"date":"2017-07-13T14:41:44","date_gmt":"2017-07-13T13:41:44","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/sites.manchester.ac.uk\/religion-law-and-the-constitution\/?p=2236"},"modified":"2025-12-08T16:29:21","modified_gmt":"2025-12-08T16:29:21","slug":"the-reverend-dr-jason-bray","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/sites.manchester.ac.uk\/religion-law-and-the-constitution\/2017\/07\/13\/the-reverend-dr-jason-bray\/","title":{"rendered":"The Reverend Dr Jason Bray"},"content":{"rendered":"

[et_pb_section bb_built=”1″ admin_label=”section” fullwidth=”on” next_background_color=”#000000″ global_module=”322″][et_pb_fullwidth_menu global_parent=”322″ _builder_version=”3.17.6″ menu_id=”8″ submenu_direction=”downwards” fullwidth_menu=”off” background_layout=”dark” module_class=”main-navigation” \/][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section bb_built=”1″ fullwidth=”off” specialty=”on” prev_background_color=”#000000″ next_background_color=”#1d1d1d”][et_pb_column type=”2_3″ specialty_columns=”2″][et_pb_row_inner locked=”off”][et_pb_column_inner type=”4_4″ saved_specialty_column_type=”2_3″][et_pb_post_title _builder_version=”3.17.6″ featured_placement=”above” locked=”on” parent_locked=”off” date_format=”j M Y” \/][et_pb_text _builder_version=”3.17.6″ background_layout=”light” parent_locked=”off”]<\/p>\n

\"JasonHow would you describe your religious or ideological identity?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019m an Anglican, liberal Anglo-Catholic. Particularly in this part of the world, I would regard the Anglican Church as being basically the Catholic Church and the local manifestation of that.\u00a0 Sorry what was the question again?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

How would you describe your religious or ideological identity?<\/h2>\n

One of the things which I\u2019ve always done is to question everything about religion.\u00a0 In fact I question everything about everything.\u00a0\u00a0 You don\u2019t just tell me something and I don\u2019t just take that on trust.\u00a0 I need to assimilate it and understand it for myself.\u00a0 And with ideological identity I have gone through all of that and come to the conclusion, for myself, that Christian orthodoxy as stated in the Creeds is the only way of making sense of the Church, of Christianity throughout the ages.\u00a0 So despite the fact that I work with almost a hermeneutic of suspicion (I\u2019m always suspicious of stuff), I\u2019ve come to the conclusion that orthodoxy is the only answer and I\u2019m quite happy with that.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

And what made you choose that?<\/h2>\n

Right, in a sense it was basically the way I was brought up.\u00a0 My parents were Anglican, sort of church-going and Anglicanism has been in the family for a long time.\u00a0 My grandfather on my mother\u2019s side comes a long line of church wardens, but he moved to Argentina, and in a sense Anglicanism was very much part of the ex-pat identity, so when he came back that was heavily vested in the family.\u00a0 I also spent some time singing in the church choir and but I know that Anglicanism gives me freedom to ask the sort of questions that I want to ask, but there is no ultimate Magisterium.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Would you say Great Britain is an equal and tolerant society, particularly in relation to religion and belief?<\/h2>\n

I would like to think it was, but I\u2019m not sure that it is.\u00a0 I realise that there are lots of questions about Islam at the moment.\u00a0 There seems to be lots of intolerance towards Islam.\u00a0 There seems to be lots of intolerance in certain section of society about religion in general.\u00a0 In the media, the BBC in particular I suppose, there does seem to be a sort of balance towards the new atheism, against religion and that makes life difficult.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

How easy is it for you to live in accordance with your faith in Wales?<\/h2>\n

Challenges to Anglicanism in Wales?\u00a0 The Anglican church in Wales has got a particular history where it is associated with landowners and effectively foreigners and middle classes.\u00a0 One of the difficult things about being an Anglican in Wales is that Welsh cultural identity is traditionally vested in the Non-Conformist chapels and we\u2019re sort of fighting against that, but we\u2019re also unfortunately inheriting the historical difficulties that they had.\u00a0 So for example in my own community, people will tell me that they don\u2019t go to church or chapel because the chapels didn\u2019t support the working men during the strikes. Despite the fact that actually as the vicar I\u2019m interested in social justice and they commend me for that, they won\u2019t come to church because we are tarred with the same brush as the traditional Non-Conformists.<\/p>\n

Anglicanism is also in a relatively strong position though because we are still represented in every community or everybody is at least within driving distance of an Anglican church. \u00a0\u00a0We also inherit people from Non-Conformist churches, because they don\u2019t have their own churches, so if they want to go to church they have to come to us in some parts of the country.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

And how does Anglicanism regard human rights?<\/h2>\n

I would like to think that they are, again speaking from the Church in Wales point of view, Archbishop Barry as you probably know has spoken out on various issues.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that he is always right, but the Anglican Church has been seen to be supportive of human rights in general.<\/em>\u00a0 That is its general policy on a macro-level, and then working in parishes on the ground.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you think that human rights which apply to everyone are a good or a bad thing for our society?<\/h2>\n

Personally I think they are a good thing and I get very frustrated when people have said that this is something which Europe is imposing on us.\u00a0 I think that human rights are crucially important.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Are there any ways in which the Anglican Churches have a practical influence on human rights in contemporary Britain?<\/h2>\n

No, to be honest.<\/p>\n

Do you think that human rights are generally respected by the government and public bodies in Great Britain?<\/h2>\n

I think that there is a rhetoric against them. It\u2019s part of the unfortunate rhetoric against various things which are going on.\u00a0 Human rights and immigration have been lumped together, and you get this rhetoric, from the Conservative Party, the ring wing press and UKIP, against anything to do with human rights because it\u2019s all been lumped together and the baby will be thrown out with the bathwater if we\u2019re not careful.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Does the State intervene too much or not enough in the lives of individuals?<\/h2>\n

I don\u2019t think that it interferes too much in most people\u2019s lives.\u00a0 The State seems to be neutral on quite a few religious issues, unless you\u2019re a Muslim, and there\u2019s this ambivalent attitude, a support of the idea of religious toleration but things can get muddied.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Can you envisage any particular situations in which the State should<\/em> interfere with people expressing their religious beliefs?<\/h2>\n

I<\/strong>f the lifestyle choices of actions impinge on other people, endanger life, that sort of thing.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you think that living in a Parliamentary democratic society makes it easier or harder for you to live in accordance with your Anglican faith?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019ve never really thought about the issue.\u00a0 One of the things about our current Parliamentary democracy is that it\u2019s not entirely democratic.\u00a0 We do have some religious representation in the House of Lords, and there is the Establishment thing so that the Church of England can influence things at a sort of Parliament level at a way that no other sort of church, including the Church in Wales can.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

But the question was about your personal practice.<\/h2>\n

Well, it would depend on who was in charge.\u00a0 Yes, it\u2019s probably easier in a Parliamentary democracy, but obviously if we had a Welsh Anglican dictator that might make life easier for me personally.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you feel that have a personal responsibility to vote?<\/h2>\n

Yes.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Duty from your faith or as a citizen?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019ve never really thought about it, in a sense my religion is so much a part of my identity that is hard to differentiate.\u00a0 There is the idea that Christians are model citizens\u2026..in theory at least.<\/p>\n

Are you happy that Parliament has the final say in making and changing law?<\/h2>\n

It would be helpful yes, because occasionally, particularly in more recent times, every time there is a crisis the government pass legislation quickly and create a whole load of problems.\u00a0 Then they have to quietly repeal stuff, or at least I hope they do.\u00a0 In a sense this is what the House of Lords should prevent but doesn\u2019t, perhaps because the House of Lords is now just a load of retired politicos who presumably sleep through the whole thing.\u00a0 I would be happy about having a much stronger independent judiciary.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is our system of Parliamentary democracy sufficiently inclusive?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019m sure that there are some groups who would feel that they are marginalised by Parliamentary democracy, but there are lobby groups and things who are able to exert influence for relatively small groups.\u00a0 No system is perfect, but it seems to work.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

What sort of concept of democracy are you embracing?\u00a0 Is majoritarian democracy problematic?<\/h2>\n

I think there are problems with the idea\u2026yes.\u00a0 I think that it was Winston Churchill who said that democracy is all very well until you might the people who actually voting.\u00a0 One thing about MPs is that they shelter us from the people actually voting\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you think it is problematic that members of the House of Lords are not elected?<\/h2>\n

In a sense I\u2019m quite happy with the idea of a non-elected upper house.\u00a0 I\u2019m not entirely happy with retired politicos being appointed by that leads to party political problems there which we\u2019ve had in the past.\u00a0 In a sense if you are going to reform the House of Lords you need to do so in a way that you don\u2019t recreate the problems of the past.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

What is your view on the bishops in the House of Lords?<\/h2>\n

In a sense, if you are going to create an upper house which is balancing the lower house, I don\u2019t see any problem with having people from specific groups.\u00a0 I know that Lord Sacks who was the Chief Rabbi is there, but that seems to be a personal appointment.\u00a0 It would be good to get representation from other groups formally as well.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

What about the present of the Church of England at the moment, as it stands?<\/h2>\n

It would be nice to see the Archbishop of Wales there too, because at the moment it is just the Church of England.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

But you don\u2019t have a problem with the Church of England as such?<\/h2>\n

No.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

And what about the idea that they speak on behalf of all people of faith?<\/h2>\n

Well, they can say what they like once they are there, can\u2019t they?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do public bodies respect Parliamentary legislation in your view?<\/h2>\n

Not off hand but I\u2019m sure it exists, particularly local government, they are very adept at working around legislation that they don\u2019t want to enact locally.\u00a0 There is a long game played out, local authorities will try to do things not in keeping with the will of Parliament.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is it good bad that some decisions are made by the EU and the devolved assemblies?<\/h2>\n

I don\u2019t have a problem with it, in a sense they are Parliamentary democracies in the same way.\u00a0\u00a0 You have the right to return MPs and you get to return AMs in the same way, it\u2019s another form of Parliamentary democracy.\u00a0 If you sign up to the European Union the same applies.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Have both been positive?<\/h2>\n

Strangely enough I am happier with the EU than the Welsh Assembly.\u00a0 Yes, because in a sense that is another check and balance.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Just one question about human rights, before I start my sections if that is okay.\u00a0 When we were talking about when the State should or should not intervene, do you have any thoughts about how that might relate to parents and children in relation to religious and ideological education?<\/h2>\n

Yes, of course some people would say it depends on the religion, some religions are more dangerous than others.\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

When it comes to educating children, do you think that there is any sort of line?<\/h2>\n

One of the problems I have is with, to some extent with religious education.\u00a0 Actually, I think educating your kids at home I think is a problem.\u00a0 I\u2019m actually slightly wary about faith schools to be honest, despite the fact that I spend quite a lot of time in my local school which is a church school working with the kids.\u00a0 I\u2019m sort of, in a sense interested in achieving some sort of parity across the board, so that all kids have equal access to information about other faiths.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

And there are implications beyond religious knowledge too aren\u2019t there? Things like knowledge about science, human sexuality, contraception?<\/h2>\n

Yes, and those are the kind of things where if you come from a closed, fundamentalist background and are educated at home, these things are given a particular spin or ignored completely, which having a universal education system would avoid.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

There are questions about treatment as well as access to information.\u00a0 Were you aware of the Child Exorcism Bill and the debate surrounding it?<\/h2>\n

No, sorry I should have been.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

A bid a few years to go try and make it illegal to exorcise minors?<\/h2>\n

As someone working in this field, I know that these things are only carried out in psychiatric hospitals when all else has failed, and you have to meet very specific criteria which I can\u2019t see many children meeting.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

It wasn\u2019t really a problem within Anglicanism.<\/h2>\n

Given the fact that you have specific permission to do these things or you are not insured, whatever body is doing this must have the rules so that it would be insured.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

What does your faith teach about people with power?<\/h2>\n

Okay, in a sense power needs to be exercised by somebody.\u00a0 So if you are going to exercise it there is an accountability before God and if you are a Christian or not, that applies.\u00a0 On a theological level there is accountability.\u00a0 And more generally, people are accountable to those they represent or have power over.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you think that Anglicans are appropriately represented in terms of Parliament, LAs and the Judiciary?<\/h2>\n

I suspect it depends on where you are.\u00a0 There are a surprisingly large number of practising Anglicans in the judiciary, and even your average MP will spend a lot of time handing around Anglican churches.\u00a0 So in that sense practising Anglicans probably have a lot of influence.\u00a0 With LAs it depends where you are, as in Wales there are some LAs where the RC church would have greater influence.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is there enough distance between the executive and judiciary?<\/h2>\n

Yes, because the executive are there basically to exercise the policies of a particularly party, the judiciary appear to be independent.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Are you relatively happy with the checks and balances in place in the Constitution at present?<\/h2>\n

Probably not, as I suggested earlier when Dr Oliva was asking me about the role of the House of Lords and judiciary.\u00a0 There is, the way I see Parliamentary democracy working at present, it seems to be dictated by the right wing press or public opinion in an unhealthy way, and checks and balances are always needed.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

How does the Church in Wales seek to challenge decisions which it sees as problematic?<\/h2>\n

Right, some of it through lobbying.\u00a0 It also depends who enacted the law, or how the problem was created.\u00a0 When the Church of England unilaterally changed the marriage law, their synod could simply do that.\u00a0 The Church in Wales had to use a member who was a member of the House of Lords to get legislation through Parliament and it was pretty much the last Act of Parliament of the last but one Parliament, so it went through easily.\u00a0 It rectified something, but had to do so through Parliament.\u00a0 On other occasions it\u2019s lobbying, or, in the case of some archbishops in the past, if you write articles in the Guardian, people might take notice.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do public authorities have a good understanding of the needs of practising Anglicans?<\/h2>\n

Probably not.\u00a0 I think that part of it is the general assumption is that Anglican is the sort of default, so sticking C of E on your form at the hospital when actually the Church in Wales hasn\u2019t been part of the Church of England for 94 years, it still hasn\u2019t cottoned on.\u00a0 They don\u2019t take any notice of the needs of practising Anglicans, because so many people are nominally Anglican but don\u2019t actually practise, that when you come across somebody who does actually practise they\u2019re not quite sure what to do.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is there any way you can think that that might be addressed?<\/h2>\n

I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 In a sense it depends on the institution.\u00a0 Schools\u2026.it\u2019s difficult to know outside a Church in Wales school, they would be much more attuned to their needs.\u00a0 Hospitals, working with hospital chaplains.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is it important to you always to act within secular law?<\/h2>\n

Traffic offences\u2026..\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do your beliefs require you to speak out against injustice affecting third parties?<\/h2>\n

Yes, I have done in the past.\u00a0 For example, leisure provision in my parish where it is a major issue, the LA closing the local leisure centre was a major problem.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t affect me personally as I can get in the car, but was aware not everyone was in that situation.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Is the Rule of Law applied equally in GB at present?<\/h2>\n

I suspect, or at least I hope, that it would be applied pretty much equally.\u00a0 I know that, it depends on what you mean by the Rule of Law.\u00a0 The police will get bees in the bonnet about local issues and that manifests at a local level, so there will be people who feel persecuted by the police, not necessarily the people who are being persecuted either.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

How do you feel about the extension of police powers over the past ten years or so?<\/h2>\n

I am exceedingly concerned.\u00a0 There\u2019s another series of Bills going through Parliament to give police even more powers.\u00a0 The snoopers\u2019 charter got thrown out, mainly because one of the government partners jumped up and down about it; otherwise anyone could have access to more or less any data.\u00a0 You do wonder whether Britain has become much more of a police State since Tony Blair came into power.\u00a0 So it\u2019s not just the Conservatives or the Coalition, it was actually Tony Blair\u2019s government that introduced so many additional, legal measures which closed down a lot of loopholes and gave the police enormous powers which they do abuse.\u00a0 They have always abused such powers as they\u2019ve had, but now that they\u2019ve got even more.\u00a0 When the police ask for more powers the response should be why, rather than when do you want them.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Are you aware of any legal provisions which have a direct impact on your capacity to live your life in the way that you would choose?<\/h2>\n

Personally, I can\u2019t think of very many.\u00a0 I was listening to someone who said that every time he saw a police car he felt guilty, but it\u2019s mainly when I\u2019m in the car that I feel guilty.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you have any comments you would like to add?<\/h2>\n

Not at the moment.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

The Revd Dr Jason Bray is currently Vicar of St Giles Parish Church in Wrexham, and was previously Vicar of Blaenavon in the South Wales Valleys. He served for many years as a training officer for the Diocese of Monmouth, and as a tutor in Biblical Studies at St Michael’s College, Llandaff.\u00a0<\/p>\n

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