{"id":2261,"date":"2017-07-13T12:24:38","date_gmt":"2017-07-13T11:24:38","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/sites.manchester.ac.uk\/religion-law-and-the-constitution\/?p=2261"},"modified":"2025-12-08T16:40:19","modified_gmt":"2025-12-08T16:40:19","slug":"baroness-ros-altmann","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/sites.manchester.ac.uk\/religion-law-and-the-constitution\/2017\/07\/13\/baroness-ros-altmann\/","title":{"rendered":"Baroness Ros Altmann"},"content":{"rendered":"

[et_pb_section bb_built=”1″ admin_label=”section” fullwidth=”on” next_background_color=”#000000″ global_module=”322″][et_pb_fullwidth_menu global_parent=”322″ _builder_version=”3.17.6″ menu_id=”8″ submenu_direction=”downwards” fullwidth_menu=”off” background_layout=”dark” module_class=”main-navigation” \/][\/et_pb_section][et_pb_section bb_built=”1″ fullwidth=”off” specialty=”on” prev_background_color=”#000000″ next_background_color=”#1d1d1d”][et_pb_column type=”2_3″ specialty_columns=”2″][et_pb_row_inner locked=”off”][et_pb_column_inner type=”4_4″ saved_specialty_column_type=”2_3″][et_pb_post_title _builder_version=”3.17.6″ featured_placement=”above” locked=”on” parent_locked=”off” date_format=”j M Y” \/][et_pb_text _builder_version=”3.17.6″ background_layout=”light” parent_locked=”off”]<\/p>\n

\"RosHow would describe your personal beliefs in terms of religion or other worldview?<\/h2>\n

I would consider myself a pretty observant Jew, but others will have their own views of my level of observance.\u00a0\u00a0 Is this interview for a Jewish audience or a secular one?<\/p>\n

Ultimately for a general audience, secular.<\/h2>\n

Okay, I would otherwise have talked about being shomer Shabbat and Frum, but I don\u2019t think that would be appropriate then.\u00a0 So, I guess I would probably be classed as an Observant Orthodox Jew.<\/p>\n

Is this something you grew up with?<\/h2>\n

I grew up in a household where my father was not Observant at all, he identified but he didn\u2019t keep.\u00a0 Whereas my mother went to Synagogue every week. \u00a0So we were brought up in a household where religion was very much a personal choice, it was not something expected of you, it was up to you to choose.\u00a0 And it was something I chose.\u00a0 When I was in my teens I used to go to Synagogue with my mother in the morning and off driving with friends to country club, cinema or somewhere or other in the afternoon.\u00a0 Suddenly, something in me thought it didn\u2019t make sense, either I don\u2019t go to Synagogue and don\u2019t keep anything like my Dad, or I really do believe and I shouldn\u2019t be going out in the afternoon, driving in a car and things, I ought to be doing Sabbath things in the afternoon.\u00a0 After a short while, I decided that actually I do believe in God and the religion and spent a long time after that learning more about the Jewish religion.\u00a0 I felt that it was inconsistent not to keep as much of it as I felt able to.\u00a0 I am not obsessive about it and I am not Ultra-Orthodox. \u00a0I absolutely believe in the existence of God although I don\u2019t know what that concept really is.\u00a0 But I have been through considering the other religions and decided Judaism makes the most sense to me.\u00a0 Is there really a God.\u00a0\u00a0 Obviously I can\u2019t prove it, and don\u2019t expect anyone else to believe it just because I do.\u00a0 But I do believe in God and am willing to accept that he dictated a certain code of practice for Jewish people to live by, which I believe in too.\u00a0 It is a way of life that works for me and I belive it is a blessing to be able to live by these rules.\u00a0 Quite frankly without the Sabbath I don\u2019t believe that I could ever have achieved what I have, I would have collapsed long ago.\u00a0 Having one day off from all electronic, electrical and everyday work things.\u00a0 Of course it doesn\u2019t mean it has to be the Jewish Sabbath, it could be the Christian Sabbath.\u00a0 But I\u2019ve been through all the other religions, what they stand for, where they came from and Judaism is what seems right for me.\u00a0 I\u2019m not saying that is the right thing, because I don\u2019t think there is a right and wrong thing \u2013 I don\u2019t think one can really speak of a right and wrong interpretation of religion.\u00a0 It\u2019s a personal choice.\u00a0 And everybody chooses a level as well.\u00a0 I don\u2019t think that I am entitled to say that I am right and this is how you should observe the religion.\u00a0 Because everyone has a barrier, a boundary, a level that you don\u2019t go beyond.\u00a0 And you could always do more.\u00a0 I don\u2019t believe that there is really a right or wrong in this.\u00a0 I have found a level I am comfortable with and that is my interpretation of how to keep my religious beliefs.<\/p>\n

Would you describe Great Britain as an equal and tolerant society, especially where religion is concerned?<\/h2>\n

Very, we are so lucky to live in a country which is tolerant or all faiths and none, and is not prescriptive about what individuals should believe.\u00a0 Our society tolerates and welcomes all different beliefs and none.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Do you feel that there are any challenges in terms of living in accordance with your personal beliefs here?\u00a0 If so, are they social, political or legal?<\/h2>\n

When you look around the world, at the Middle East and places, we are so fortunate here.\u00a0 Tolerance, respect, interest even, I do find that people seem to show interest in other religions, not just tolerance.\u00a0 Wanting to know what it\u2019s all about, let\u2019s understand it a bit.<\/p>\n

Are there any legal debates going at the moment which concern you?\u00a0\u00a0 Things like ritual slaughter?<\/h2>\n

Yes, that does concern me, but I understand it, and I understand that for those who don\u2019t believe in it and don\u2019t see that it is something which came from the Bible, that it could be difficult.\u00a0 I do get that.<\/p>\n

Do you think that our current understanding of human rights have been a positive thing for our society?<\/h2>\n

I think that in some ways, especially when it comes to terrorism, we may have gone a bit too far, other people may disagree.<\/p>\n

Do you think that Judaism has contributed to the world\u2019s understanding of human rights?<\/h2>\n

I hope so, I hope that human rights is based on fundamental religious beliefs.\u00a0 If you look at the Old Testament and much of the teachings for man and his relationship with fellow man.\u00a0 Loving your neighbour as yourself, treating other people as you would wish to be treated, not cheating, always helping your neighbour, if people are begging or poor you mustn\u2019t withhold money or food if they need it.\u00a0 I think that there is a compassion there.<\/p>\n

Do you think that Judaism teaches that citizens have a responsibility to participate and vote?<\/h2>\n

I\u2019m not sure it is as prescriptive as to require you to vote even if you didn\u2019t like what any of the candidates said.\u00a0 I may not be learned enough in that regard, but I haven\u2019t come across that instruction.<\/p>\n

But you would say that there is a duty to consider the options and make a responsible decision?<\/h2>\n

Oh yes, being a responsible member of society and voting the way you believe works best for society is part all of that.\u00a0 Judaism is actually probably naturally quite a left-wing, socialist type of religion.\u00a0 Looking after your fellow man, the idea of the Jubilee, that you can only really own something for 50 years then it goes back to the original owner.\u00a0 If somebody needs to borrow money you mustn\u2019t withhold it and turn your back if they are less fortunate than you.\u00a0 There is an obligation on you to support the rest of society if you can.\u00a0 You must let someone who is working for you free after seven years, and give them as much as you can to set them on their way and thank them for their loyal service.<\/p>\n

Is it appropriate or even positive that we have Church of England bishops sitting in the House of Lords at present?<\/h2>\n

Personally I do think it is appropriate, I like the idea that we have a religion based in our Parliament, the fact that it is Christian religion is fine as far as I am concerned.\u00a0 It is a religious input and we are a Christian country.\u00a0 I like to see religion represented, but it is not as if the bishops are ramming religion down everyone\u2019s throat.\u00a0 They are almost guardians on behalf of the queen.<\/p>\n

There is a tendency for the Chief Rabbi to be appointed to the House of Lords, would you like to see this happen as a matter of right?<\/h2>\n

The system we have got now seems to work.\u00a0 I think you know if we were to have a Chief Rabbi that somehow other people did not respect or feel was a good person, to force them to have them in the Lords would be difficult.\u00a0 Likewise though, I would think it dreadful if there was any kind of religious bar to being in the legislature, which thankfully we don\u2019t have.\u00a0\u00a0 We are very fortunate.\u00a0 If you look at Israel they welcome all religions in Parliament, it\u2019s a democratic process. And the same with MPs here, the religious angle doesn\u2019t come into it in that respect at all, it\u2019s the person.\u00a0 And in the Lords if you are considered to be of the calibre that whoever is selecting, believes that you are worthy and will make a useful contribution.\u00a0 I wouldn\u2019t want to see religion as a bar, but I don\u2019t think that religion should give you an automatic right either.<\/p>\n

What responsibility do people who exercise power owe to the rest of society?<\/h2>\n

That is where you get to the heart of the matter\u2026.obviously no favouritism, judging fairly without vested interest, moral leadership, leading by example as well as telling people what you believe and actually practising, helping people see that there is a legislature where those responsible for making your laws and leading you are decent people.\u00a0 In modern-day politics that can be very challenging.\u00a0 All too often there is some charge or corruption, even if it isn\u2019t real corruption and that itself can be very difficult for political leadership and the reputation of the leadership. I would hope that all of those involved in the legislature in that way would take it upon themselves to be whiter that white.\u00a0 That is why all of these expenses scandals are so difficult.\u00a0\u00a0 The public is disappointed to see moral standards being lowered.\u00a0 We have to be careful that those in charge of making the rules which apply to the legislature don\u2019t allow practices to become acceptable when they normally wouldn\u2019t be if you thought about it.\u00a0 Clarity, transparency, honesty, integrity, those are just so important.\u00a0 Sadly, they are not always present in abundance and I found that I came under pressure to stay silent in the face of wrongdoing, or to hide unpleasant facts, which I find wholly alien.<\/p>\n

Are there any issues which you have felt so strongly about it that you personally wanted to campaign to change it.<\/h2>\n

<\/u>Government kept saying no.\u00a0 In the end I had to organise an appeal to the Parliamentary Ombudsman, which was meant to be the appropriate process, to try and get redress if government had done something wrong of that nature.\u00a0 The Parliamentary Ombudsman found in our favour, and for the first time ever the government said sorry we disagree, we\u2019re not going to do it.\u00a0 So we had to go to the Public Administration Select Committee, which also found in our favour.\u00a0 Once again, government, unprecedently said get knotted, tough luck.\u00a0 Even worse, it tried to put in place a fiction of a compensation scheme that wasn\u2019t actually going to help almost all of them.\u00a0 It was the worst kind of spin, they called it an assistance scheme but it wasn\u2019t actually going to assist them.\u00a0 \u00a0The Government tried to pretend it was all fine, so, having watched some of the people die, having visited them in hospital or gone to their funerals, I just kept trying and in the end I had to try and find lawyers to take the government to court.\u00a0 But the victims had no money.\u00a0 I\u2019d funded fringe meetings at party political conferences myself but I couldn\u2019t afford to fund a court case, all the work I did was pro-bono.<\/p>\n

But I just felt that I couldn\u2019t turn my back on them.\u00a0 And at the time I was working with the government, in Number 10, so I thought that surely as soon as the government understands what happens it will all get sorted.\u00a0 But it didn\u2019t, so I had to keep helping them in their battle.\u00a0 So we went to the High Court, we won, but then the Government appealed and kept trying to bully these people into withdrawing.\u00a0 It threatened to go after their houses if they lost their court case against the Government and Ministers wouldn\u2019t guarantee not to pursue these victims for costs.\u00a0 So we had to raise some money for a fighting fund just in case.\u00a0 It all took so much of my time, but I just couldn\u2019t turn my back on them.\u00a0 In those days if you had a company pension you weren\u2019t allowed to have any other sort of pension, so they had all their money in that.\u00a0 And some of their State pension was in there as well.\u00a0 Finally we won in the Court of Appeal and the government gave in and agreed to pay most of their pensions back – not all but in line with the Pension Protection Fund set up to protect people in future.\u00a0 It was the worst way for government to operate, totally insensitive, ignoring the rights of ordinary people.\u00a0 Most of these people\u2019s pensions were around \u00a38000 to \u00a3100000 a year, some were less than that.\u00a0 Many of them were union members who trusted the union and their shop stewards who had told them it was safe.\u00a0\u00a0 They trusted the government.<\/p>\n

Do you think that the Rule of Law is applied equally to everyone in society?<\/h2>\n

There is an element of power that does play a role and favoured groups who get treated better and less favoured groups who get treated worse.\u00a0 I think though that is an extreme case.\u00a0And just the ordinary, democratic representation doesn\u2019t always work.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve got the right MP, with the right power and you are a favoured person in some way, you have got a better chance.\u00a0\u00a0 But that is in extremes, having said all of that I deal with MPs\u2019 letters from their constituents all the time, who do make an effort to really try and help sort out ordinary people\u2019s problems.\u00a0 There are processes to try and protect the public, but when it comes to big public money spending, then that\u2019s a difficult one perhaps.<\/p>\n

Is it important for you always to act within secular law?\u00a0 Are there circumstances which justify or even necessitate breaking human law?<\/h2>\n

Not that I am aware of, I can\u2019t think of an example where my religious beliefs would prevent me from upholding the law.\u00a0We have a lot more fortunate bits than unfortunate in our society, we live in a country which offers so much.\u00a0 In a way some of the issues which people might not like stem from being overzealous in that regard, protecting the rights of terrorists, criminals\u2026..there is a perception that that isn\u2019t acceptable and it is a really difficult judgment to make.<\/p>\n

\n

Ros Altmann graduated from University College London with First Class Honours in Economics and had a very successful career in finance, working for organisations such as Chase Manhattan, Rothchilds International Asset Management and Natwest.\u00a0 She also has carried out academic work with both Harvard and the London School of Economics, receiving a Phd from the latter for a thesis on pension income and later life poverty.\u00a0 She has carried out extensive campaign work to ameliorate the plight for older people facing hardship through pension mismanagement, for example in relation to pension theft scandal involving Allied Steel and Wire and also the Equitable Life controversy.\u00a0 She is a member of the House of Lords and served as pensions minister for David Cameron, but considers herself politically independent.<\/p>\n

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